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The Cycle

News/Business. Politics, the economy, media, sports and any other issues that grab people's attention. New.

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01:00:00

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1080

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Massachusetts 11, Us 8, Clinton 6, Biden 6, Marco Rubio 5, Lyrica 5, Boston 4, Hagel 4, Chuck Hagel 4, Steve 3, America 3, Duvall Patrick 2, Scott Brown 2, Usaa 2, Match.com 2, Fbi 2, Wayne La Pierre 2, Patrick 2, Kelly O'donnell 2, Campbell 2,
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  MSNBC    The Cycle    News/Business. Politics, the economy, media, sports  
   and any other issues that grab people's attention. New.  

    January 30, 2013
    12:00 - 1:00pm PST  

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>> speaking is difficult, but i need to say something important. >> a senate committee hears from one of the most powerful witnesses. one of its own. >> he wants to be the secretary of defense, but first he will have to be the secretary of defense. get ready for fireworks on the hill. >> certainly no love lost in d.c., but as america's hottest dating ritual ruining relationships? >> for instance, today we are solving the mystery of the lindburgh baby. >> can hillary derail the biden express? final stop 2016, nothing can derail the cycle.
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>> there three major issues circulating in washington today. we have it covered for you cycle style. they are the gun debate with testimony before the senate from gabby giffords and wayne la pierre and immigration reform from the bipartisan plan and the president's speech in las vegas and the hagel nomination for defense secretary. the battle lines are being drawn being drawn with guns. word now that another plan is brewing in the senate. a comprehensive bill by tom coburn and chuck schumer on the left. the same one who joined general and marco rubio on immigration. watch your back there. to kickoff the coverage, we bring in nbc's kelly o'donnell with developments on guns. we heard a portion of gabby giffords's statement at the top of the show. i want to play the rest right now. >> violence is a big problem.
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too many children are dying. too many children. we must do something. it will be hard, but the time is now. you must act. be bold, be courageous. americans are counting on you. thank you. >> kelly, obviously that was a gripping way to start the hearing. where do we go from there? >> it is rare you have something so emotionally and politically charged and have a witness like gabby gifford that is the panel can relate to so personally. that made today more compelling. key issues, democrats and many
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of them are supporting the idea of universal background checks to expand how they would know the background mental history and that sort of thing. also what to do about ammunition and should there be restrictions related to the number of bullets and the number of high capacity clips and that kind of thing. those are very difficult issues and many democrats on the panel acknowledged their own support for gun ownership and trying to find a path to make restrictions, but at the same time to be able to respect the rights of second amendment and the gun owners and gun enthusiast who is feel strongly about that. to give a sense of how it matched up, mark kelly and wayne la pierre, the ceo of the nra outlined the essence of the hearing. >> gabby and i are pro gun ownership. we are also anti-gun violence. rights demand responsibility. this right does not extend to
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terrorists. it does not extend to criminals and it does not extend to the mentally ill. when dangerous people get guns, we are all vulnerable. >> a third of our schools right now have armed security already because it works. more gun laws while failing to enforce the thousands we already have is not a serious solution for reducing crime. proposals that only serve to burden the law-abiding will fail again in the future. >> only a couple of times did wane la pierre get into it with a member of the committee. over the hours, it was a reasonable back and forth. it was not the fireworks that some people might have expected. while he opposes the universal background checks, he came with an argument to make saying over and over again, there not prosecutions of laws that are on the books, trying to put the pressure back on the justice department and less on gun owners. a lot of emotion when other
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examples were given with people in the audience attending the hearing who are victims of gun violence or had family member who is were. it's a complicated issue and he hopes to have something for his committee to look at in terms of a bill by next month. there lots of different attempts dealing with trafficking. dealing with bans and lots of different bills and ideas being thrown around. democrats in particular and the senate with something they think can get through because there is not an expectation that the house will act on this issue. >> kelly o'donnell, thank you very much. to one of the other big stories prepping for tomorrow's hearing on the nomination. on the pentagon for that. jimmy williams spent seven years in the senate as a high level staffer. jimmy, there will be a lot of fireworks during the hearings and we are expecting, but basically everybody at this point is expecting that chuck hagel will be confirm said as
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the defense secretary. what's interesting is this is sort of the first post citizens united cabinet nomination battle. we have seen a wave of television ads with groups of opaque and mysterious names opposing the hagel nomination and certainly attracted a lot of attention in the media. why they expected the nomination will go through. do you think this experience tells us this is something the super pac groups will try and give it up in the future or have we entered a new era where they are subject to campaign style over the air assaults? >> i think we are at the dawn of this new type of anti-campaigning if you will. scuttling people thaw don't like. you go down to the floor where the nominations are a proved or not and say i don't like that guy or i think he is great or we will say yes or whatever.
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grass roots and all the secret money that will be funneled in going forward. that's not the best way to get the nominees exposed, if you will. to get their views put out in the public domain. it's slanted and one-side and i don't know who is paying for it. i suspect this is the end of the things to come. >> the groups called use your mandate. makes you want to face off really, really hard. >> hagel is anti-am with, anti-choice. anti-israel, aspect gay and pro assault weapon. that's not what we voted for in november. chuck hagel doesn't share our values. >> wow. pro assault weapon is a perjurorative. i didn't realize that, but it's called a liberal gay rights group and buying ads through a republican group. i am confused.
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help me out. >> this ad by a campaign is being done by the same company that the house and the senate republican political parties and campaigns buy all their ads through. i find it hard to believe that any liberal group will go to this douchl do so much less a gay liberal group. it's a farce. i don't have a clue who is paying for this and it doesn't matter. they are protected by the tax code. we will never know. it's ridiculous to think he is anti-women and all these things. he was conservative for nebraska, but not hitler or somebody. i find it preposterous that this ad is out there running. >> as steve mentioned, hagel's confirmation is not really in doubt at this point. my question is, was it ever really in doubt? the senate has a history of confirming their own when they are put to the test. >> listen, the last that
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happened was john to youer, a senator from texas and the one before that was 1959. the senate pretty much protects their members. the tower nominations are similar to this one. guess who is going to introduce chuck hagel tomorrow? guess who the chairman and ranking member of the armed services committee were during the tower nomination? the same two men. the biggest thing about the tower nomination was that that was taken down by conserfatives. a guy named paul was a pretty big conservative. you know who he is and he testified after tower testified before the committee. he wasn't a good person and the fbi allegations were all true. alcoholism and coziness with defense contractors, et cetera, etc. to be honest, it was the conservatives that brought down
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john tower. i don't see that happening at this point, but you never know. >> i think a lot of the opposition to chuck hagel is for opposition sake. there is character assassination is homophobia and anti-semitism. i don't care if he is homophobic as vile as that is to me, i want to know his policies. it's about his positions on iran and hope these come up at the hearings. these are positions you can see on the screen. they are not just extreme. they are in contrast to our current administration's positions on iran. i wanted to know how that is going to square and how he can explain some of those decisions he made in the past. votes, for example, failing to classify hezbollah. a lot of these things deserve answers. i don't care about his
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personality and care about psychology on him. we do deserve answers on policy. >> the senate will work its will. having worked in the senate, i am working the right to say yes or no. those questions should be asked tomorrow by both democrats and republicans on the committee. if you answered the questions, they report him out. they gave him an up or down vote. >> they do matter. is he going to implement the don't ask don't tell? his voting record was anti-lbgt. iran is something people should look at and he is beginning to make statements. conflict with iran is closer than we think. the position on that as well. that's for the senate to decide and not for anyone else. >> we have the opportunity for
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our cycle bit of useless trivia for the day. you said the previous one was 1959. you are correct. that was straus, the nominee and admiral and the congress secretary. >> off the top of his head. he did not google it. >>ive might have written about that recently. >> i am as much of a nerd as you are still. >> i don't know. >> he got it. >> he said 1959. >> it's not my matter. >> he has the desk to prove it. >> in the memory of john tower and lewis straus, we end it there. up next, the immigration and positive talk. will anything get done? that size the cycle rolls on for wednesday, january 30th. time just flies. [ male announcer ] how do you measure happiness? by the armful? by the barrelful? the carful?
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with the president full steam ahead on immigration reform and the senate's plan, two pressure points we should be watching. one is a trigger that requires border security and the second is the president's vow to bring legislation to the floor if congress does not act quickly enough. could these two points dash hopes of a deal? fellow at the center for politics at the lbj public affairs. a contributor for msnbc and nbc latino and we discovered the
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important step. we have a due date that is three days apart. congratulations to you. thanks for joining us. >> i find out tomorrow if it's a girl or boy. >> excitingly. >> will you tell us? >> i will. >> a full discussion of this. we can share ultra sowns and such. >> back to the other story. less important obviously. you have rip with a few exceptions, they see reform as sb 1070 and stopping anxiouso babies and to your point, the senator was on the show today and made interesting comments about immigration reform. let's take a listen. >> look, i love and respect marco. he is amazingly naive on the issue. this is the same old formula that we dealt with before including when it passed in 1986. that is promises of enforcement and immediate amnesty.
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of course the promises of enforcement never materialized. the amnesty happens immediately. >> he is talking about marco rubio. he put himself cross wise with a lot of republicans and put himself out there on immigration reform? >> believe it or not, i agree with david on a different point. in terms of marco being naive, the actual piece of legislation of immigration by the president and by the senate is strong and it addresses the weaknesses of 1986 and the 1965 reform. where rubio is being naive is not thinking this is going to help with the 2016 presidential run. it's not going to help them. it's going to hurt him with the base. you you want to run for president, you have to get out of the primary. you don't see folks from peoria or paris liking his stand on
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immigration. on the democratic side, he thinks he might get cross over democratic voters, but immigration will be a president obama initiative. people will relate to the president and marco rubio will be a long second afterthought. >> senator viter aside, if marco rubio's goal was to convince the far right republicans to consider immigration reform, his interview with rush limbaugh went a good way in doing that. the figure that is that this 11 million illegal immigrants, i don't know is actually current. a lot of people are suggesting that that figure might be low. the real count might be somewhere in the 15 to 20 or 30 or 40 million illegal immigrants or migrants we have to sort of address here.
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that brings up two issues for me. if that's true, republicans who oppose immigration reform really need to come up with a good way of trying to deport 40 million people. that sounds absurd and impractical to me. they need to get on board with how to address the reality of the situation we are living in. two, if the figure is high, i'm wondering if the cost of dealing with a large group of people who might be at the back of the line for 20 years, if that cost has been figured into any of the immigration plans we are discussing. >> the other point is i don't know if you have seen a day without a mexican, not only the cost of the lo justices, but day to day what happened. the services would really come to a halt. there is absolutely the issue of
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the cost and we also need to think about the income that foaling these immigrants into our society would bring. they would be paying full taxes. they would be contributing to the social safety net. this is important because latinos are a younger population and non-latinos in particular, whites are aging at a much more rapid rate. they are older and having less kids. latinas are having more children and contribute to the older generation. >> the political argument that is looking at marco rubio. we know it's the number you see on the screen. obama over romney over latino voters. you have the growing latino areas. i wonder if there is a second argument that republicans are considering or ought to
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consider. that is how they are toned on this and defined the rhetoric and affects non-latino voters. how much do you think this hurt the republican party's brain that it took this long to get to this point on this issue? >> well, the argument is also that when you want compassionate conservatism, it's not just the target group, but also for john latinos. the fiscal conservative who is may not love or hate latinos, but they cringe at the rhetoric. i agree that this is not just an issue about latinos, but softening the general image of the republican party. it's gone so far to the right with the peak of the 2010 tea party movement, that they try to buff the edges out. >> the first thing is border security. with enforcement promises never materialized, that is untrue.
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the 2007 bill asked for several things that we are super serving or doing measure they asked for. we have 21,000 border patrol agents zeechl over 600 miles. they asked for 300 towers. we have nine. annual border crossings are down to 85,000 in 2011. thank you for pointing that out to me. steve? it seems to me that border security is this thing that is actually working and republicans use to say we will never agree to a pathway. we will keep holding this up forever. >> the border has never been so enforced as it is foeds. they should read the immigration reform and control act to see how they do different border enforcement. with that being said, i want to point out it's not just about the border.
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the border is enforced, but it's about the technology and the visa tracking system. anywhere from 30 to 50% of undocumented folks in this country today came here legally. they came here with a visa or by plane or boat or car. if we just focus on the border, we are missing half of the picture. >> thank you. good luck tomorrow. >> thank you. take care. >> she can't lose. boy or girl. it doesn't matter. it's a win-win. >> straight ahead, steve is quivering with excitement for this one. kerry's move to state. a huge day in massachusetts politics. favorites and no name anointed in a come back story. all that ahead.
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. eight years ago i admit i had a slightly different plan to leave the senate.
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60 million americans voted they wanted me to stay here with you. i learned about humility and i learned sometimes the greatest lesson comes not from victory, but dusting yourself off after a defeat and starting over when you get knocked down. >> after more than a quarter century of service, john kerry taking over as secretary of state friday when hillary clinton will sail into the sunset for now. that puts into motion another massachusetts special election on june 25th with a potentially heated primary in late april. more on the juicy details coming up. first duvall patrick needed to name an interim replacement and the former chief of staff, william mo cowan who will serve until that special election, months from now.
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only the second black senator ever from massachusetts. >> to the extent you asked whether having a black govern nor was a goal of mine, yeah. i guess it goes with the package if you know what i mean. >> i suspect that the reason i'm standing here is not because i'm an african-american, but as the governor indicated, he has confidence. >> it's time to talk massachusetts politics. to begin the speculation of who will be on the ballot and win these fun things. >> can you do it in an accent? >> no. if we are going talk politics, we should be joined by former governor michael dukakis. this is a first term governor. >> signed to frances. >> you have a $16,000 jewel or
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so. >> i have a $1.99 on ebay. >> he is living. >> the duke joins us. there is so much to talk about here. i will try to be quick. a couple of quick points. it first is on this appointment of cowan. to the national media story here, is patrick going to appoint barney frank. he was openly campaigning for the appointment. he knew he was probably not going to get the appointment. he tried to pressure patrick into it. i don't have a problem with what patrick did. his voting record for the income four or five will be the same as what the nominees will have. we will forget what it was for these few months. he will join him. i think the appointment said something good about the evolution of massachusetts and
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the evolution of culture and politics in massachusetts. i grew up in the state that massachusetts, you don't have to go back that far to talk about the bussing riots and refusing to integrate. bill russell, his life was hell because of the race in and around boston. i can remember as a kid, the celtics were the best team in basketball in the late 1980s. in roxbury, they were wearing lakers jersey. things have changed. when i was a kid, it was a few irish names. now you have got in 2006 duvall patrick from the southside of chicago who came to massachusetts and broke into this system and became the governor anywhere. it wouldn't have happened in
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massachusetts. this appointment today it's not because of his race, that was something part of the massachusetts political establishment and because somebody like that was able to climb up and become part of it. the culture is changing a bit. >> finally earning the reputation. >> i would be more excited about the two black senators, in the senate for the first time ever since reconstruction. >> i find it a lot more amazing. >> it's the first time. that's amazing. >> if they were elected. we had people electing, that would be more valuable. you scheduled a correct history of boston when you talk about the red sox and the bussing and the riots and these sorts of things. the progressive history of boston, you know that as well. the brooklyn dodgers of basketball and all black five,
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the first black player. the kennedy tradition. there was a progressive tradition and i look at the leaders of massachusetts right now. i am proud to have them and have senator warren be the senior senator of massachusetts and think about barney frank. i wish they went out on a high note, but proud to see him. >> progressive history that failed to elect women or black people until recently. >> that's it. there is really only three states. >> white democratic state that failed to elect blacks and women. >> only three states that ever elected an african-american governor. >> what was your contributions? >> i did something interesting. he tried to play that you are not from around here card and it didn't end up working out.
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i am disappointed it is not barney frank because even though this is for a short period of time, there is critical negotiations coming up that i think he would have been well-positioned to contribute to, but i am excited about the diversity. you were saying originally you thought scott brown and the right calculation for him would be to run for governor. do you think that's the case? >> is the right calculation, but it looks 99.9% certain. you can have this primer on the democratic side and the changing face of massachusetts politics. you will have a battle that embodies what the party now is. this liberal congressman. he will be challenged. an iron worker and south boston.
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back when this picture was taken, it was a big fault line. he starts out 30 points ahead of lynch. that's how much they are. they did that and brown did that. >> seems like a local show. >> so much more. >> so much fighting. >> they will win the nomination and if he wants to be the mayor of boston some day. scott brown is probably about 47 or 48%. it will be a fun few months. 40 segments on this. >> they said only 40. i keep a signed photo on my desk up stairs and sometimes i bring it with me for good luck. my desk is kind of a wonder world of trinkets and newspaper clippings.
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they found it necessary online, available on the website and also a link on our facebook page. the lindbergh may be. i don't have my diploma. that's a whole other story. i oh, $25 to tell us what you think is missing. don't forget to like us while you are there. that's facebook. don't forget to do that. love in the time of algo rhythms. is online dating the death of monoga monogamy? [ voice on phone ] up high! up high!
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[ laughs ] up high! up high! [ sighs ] [ chuckles ] yo, give it up, dude! up high... ok. up high... ok. high! up high!!! ok ok that's getting pretty old. don't you have any useful apps on that thing? who do you think i am, quicken loans? [ chuckles ] at quicken loans, our amazingly useful mortgage calculator app allows you to quickly calculate your mortgage payment based on today's incredibly low interest rates... right from your iphone or android smartphone. this great tool answers your home loan questions organizes your results, and lets you calculate with the confidence of a rocket scientist. you can even take notes and add photos of your favorite homes! it's the 21st century way to make your next home refinance or purchase easy.
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is engineered to amaze. all stations come over to mithis is for real this time. step seven point two one two. verify and lock. command is locked. five seconds. three, two, one. standing by for capture. the most innovative software on the planet... dragon is captured. is connecting today's leading companies to places beyond it. siemens. answers.
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>> it might be a sham. for millions of americans, find your match and for others, it's a $2 billion industry. 1/3 of the single americans look for love online. there used to be a stigma, but that is gone. our next guest wanted to find out how the algo rhythms of love are create and to meet the consumer who is make it a big business. love in the time of algo rhyt s rhythms. it sounds like a title if he was still doing that sort of thing. >> the caller still existed. >> i did steal the title a little bit.
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>> there is more than just the fact that there was the link between the title and the book. >> that's my argument and i'm sticking to it. >> one of the most interesting things in this book is when you talk about the niching of these things, we all know about e harmony and match.com, but there is for military widows and the gaggle that encourages women to have relationships with multiple men. why do i find that fascinating? talk about the niching of the relationships by the social sites. >> you would ask about that, wouldn't you. he wants to know about the down and dirty nich sites. the gaggle is a site run by a
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couple of women who have a philosophy about how women of their age should be thinking about their relationship lives. but there plenty of dating sites that can facilitate as many hook ups as you want and what i call the nicheification of the web. we can slice up our interests as thinly as we want. you have as you were saying, sites for military widows and the site for adults who like to dress in diapers. >> oh, my. >> you see everything. these sorts of things can be accessed through a normal online dating site like a match.com. you can say i'm interested in diapers or whatever you want to say and maybe someone will respond. >> gross. i don't care how people meet each other and if online makes that easier, that's great. manti te'o was a warning of the catfish phenomenon.
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if you haven't seen the movie catfish, it's gripping. go see it. what kinds of other dinners are there for online dating? >> the interesting thing about the manti te'o incident is not that it happened. it happens all the time. people fall in love with a profile and develop strong feelings based on the messaging that goes back and forth. the interesting thing about that is that there was no money involved. a lot of the scams are based on moan. the point is to extract money from someone. in this situation, i don't know if it's less sad or more sad, but more just to lure someone emotional and to embarrass them. >> this trend seems to be working out well for a lot of people. on balance, online dating has been a good thing for people making connections. >> i think so.
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any dating site, any kind of a technology that helps people not be alone is a fantastic thing. yes, we have to deal with the downside, but we have to deal with the downside of every technology. look at the text messages and the car beings it causes. no one is getting in a car accident as a result of online dating, but there other harms and hopefully those can be minimized as the industry moves forward. >> thank you very much. >> thank you. >> up next, tabloid press and sensational murder and it's still unsolved case nearly 80 years later? we are going inside who killed charles lindbergh's baby. >> comes in on the police teletype. >> when the lindbergh baby is reported missing, this country is in a state of shock. there is a sense of disbelief that this extraordinary royal prince really would have been stolen. yes she is, yes she is. [ bop ]
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americans witnessed something truly awful. >> the son of a famous of a yeat or and ransom notes and clandestine cemetery meetings and boats at martha's vineyard and they are watching. he was caught and tried and 80 years later, more questions than answers. joining us now, the writer, producer and director of who killed lindbergh's baby. that premiers on pbs. from amelia air hard to db cooper's millions. the lipd berg baby is an enduring mystery and that intrigued a mystery. why have we been engaged so long? >> it's the case that never dies. that's probably true in this past year. there two new books about the case. it's hard to realize because it was ache years ago, but this is probably the most significant
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crimes ever to happen in america. it's after this terrible event that the congress creates a federal police force, the fbi in recognition that there just certain crimes that state and local forces cannot solve. lindbergh was the most famous man in the world. when his son is kidnapped and killed, the out pouring of grief had not been felt since the lincoln a ssz nation. >> what have you learned? >> there have been a lot of books britney about the person in the case and whether he was in fact independent when the police arrest him. he projects himself as an innocent man who would never do such a thing. he goes to the chair proclaiming his innocence even though the
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prosecution offered a deal to save the crime. he thought he had conspirators and he goes to his death and starts a cycle where the people begin to believe he was innocent after all. i think one of the first things we do is very carefully look at was bruno richard actually guilty. bruno richard hoffman really guilty? >> part of this, too, my understanding of this is lindbergh himself really took such on active role. the ransom notes, this sort of thing. maybe he kind of complicated things and messed things up by trying to deal with the mob and it turned out he was dealing with a tabloid in new york and not telling the police about everything. did he get in the way of solving this crime earlier? >> absolutely. and in fact, i mention that there were two new books written. one was actually a reissue of a book by a very prominent rutgers
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historian who essentially claimed that lindbergh engineered the kidnapping of his own child. and one of his justifications for that theory is that lindbergh completely controlled the investigation. in his estimation this was a way to keep the police away. frankly, if you look at the history of kidnapping in that period, what you see is "a" it's significant and "b" you can see a trail of dead children. and lindbergh knew that. and this man who was supremely confident in his own abilities and very controlling also felt that he could probably do a better job than the police. so you've got two sides of that argument. and again, we look at that pretty carefully in the show. >> we'll look forward to watching it tonight. thank you, larry kline. >> thank you. straight ahead, hillary clinton is busy with exit interviews today. steve kornacki says this might
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be good-bye. speaking of exits, here's how "family guy" explains the disappearance of the lindbergh baby. >> maybe it's time for stewie to start potty training. >> isn't he too young for that? you know what happened to the libd berg baby. >> he's only six months old. >> will you relax? i think i know how to -- oh, god! oh, god! all right. he was kidnapped. you call the police. i'll write the ransom note. >> what about amelia, she saw everything. >> you leave her to me. hold on, prilosec isn't for fast relief. cue up alka-seltzer. it stops heartburn fast. ♪ oh what a relief it is! [ male announcer ] when it comes to the financial obstacles military families face, we understand. our financial advice is geared specifically to current and former military members and their families.
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i'm still secretary of state. i can't really engage in politics. and for the foreseeable future, i don't think that i will be at all political, because there's just so much else i need to do. >> this is hillary clinton's week. "60 minutes" with the president the other night, our own andrea mitchell today. she's tweaked her sayings about 2016 saying it's at least on her mind. just like a hillary '16 campaign seems to be on everyone's mind. what's weird about this, we already have a vice president. his name isn't hillary clinton, and he really wants to run for president in 2016 too. shouldn't he be the heir apparent? after all, that is supposed to be the top selling point of the vice president si. six of the last eight elected v.p.s have gone on to seek the white house on their own. the only was agnew and dick cheney who there were a lot of reasons why he didn't run.
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but when the talk turns to 2016, the current vice president is overlooked. two main rans for this. the first is age. he's 70 now. he'll be 74 on inauguration day in 2017. that would make him the oldest sworn in as president. here biden is haunted by the example of alben barkley. that would be the long serving kentucky senator who ended up as harry truman's v.p. in 1948 yearning to succeed his boss four yaers later. but party leaders delivered the barkley is blunt message. you're just too old. and they went with stevenson instead. but, hey. age isn't what it used to be. people regularly work well into their 70s and 80s these days. while biden is a se-- here's betting that age alone won't
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derail the biden '16 train. but here's something that might. hillary clinton. she is by far the biggest obstacle standing in biden's path. her popularity has soared in the four years. she put the natural claim as obama's right ffl successor. so much so that i doubt biden or anyone else will run if she does. there is, however, a good argument to be made that clinton will end up passing. popularity she's enjoyed these past years is new for her. remember how she and her husband were tormented by the other side. she's proved all she wanted to prove in elected politics and wants to try something else. if clinton isn't in the mix, biden claimed the obama mantle will be strong. and loyal v.p.s into popular second term presidents have a